<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Roldo on proposed Cuyahoga County reforms</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2008/roldo-on-proposed-cuyahoga-county-reforms/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2008/roldo-on-proposed-cuyahoga-county-reforms</link>
	<description>Locally owned and operated from Cleveland, OH since 2002</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 22:07:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: J Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2008/roldo-on-proposed-cuyahoga-county-reforms/comment-page-1#comment-2597</link>
		<dc:creator>J Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/?p=525#comment-2597</guid>
		<description>Roldo, I&#039;m advocating a hired chief executive, not an elected official, even if there is one of three that, on paper, dominates. In practice, we&#039;re still in a political world. I did, of course, read the report.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roldo, I&#8217;m advocating a hired chief executive, not an elected official, even if there is one of three that, on paper, dominates. In practice, we&#8217;re still in a political world. I did, of course, read the report.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: roldo bartimole</title>
		<link>http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2008/roldo-on-proposed-cuyahoga-county-reforms/comment-page-1#comment-2595</link>
		<dc:creator>roldo bartimole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/?p=525#comment-2595</guid>
		<description>NO, no, no, J. Didn&#039;t you read the piece. That is essentially what the plan calls for - one boss without any conterveiling balance. There would be three commissioners but ONE would be king. That&#039;s what the plan asks. ANd, please, read the report itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NO, no, no, J. Didn&#8217;t you read the piece. That is essentially what the plan calls for &#8211; one boss without any conterveiling balance. There would be three commissioners but ONE would be king. That&#8217;s what the plan asks. ANd, please, read the report itself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: J Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2008/roldo-on-proposed-cuyahoga-county-reforms/comment-page-1#comment-2594</link>
		<dc:creator>J Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/?p=525#comment-2594</guid>
		<description>Steve, there&#039;s nothing wrong with anything, if your measure of success is electoral process. If your measure of success, however, is productivity, the ratio of public workers per citizen, or some other meaningful measure of the burden of the public sector on private citizens, who care about electoral process? See Ed&#039;s posts.

Roldo, so you are suggesting that there be a unitary executive elected by the public, and he would then hire professionals? Right. He would hire his cronies, which is little different from the current situation. County jobs are currently heavily weighted towards being staffed by the people who staff the campaigns of elected officials. How will your proposal alter this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, there&#8217;s nothing wrong with anything, if your measure of success is electoral process. If your measure of success, however, is productivity, the ratio of public workers per citizen, or some other meaningful measure of the burden of the public sector on private citizens, who care about electoral process? See Ed&#8217;s posts.</p>
<p>Roldo, so you are suggesting that there be a unitary executive elected by the public, and he would then hire professionals? Right. He would hire his cronies, which is little different from the current situation. County jobs are currently heavily weighted towards being staffed by the people who staff the campaigns of elected officials. How will your proposal alter this?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gloria Ferris</title>
		<link>http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2008/roldo-on-proposed-cuyahoga-county-reforms/comment-page-1#comment-2593</link>
		<dc:creator>Gloria Ferris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/?p=525#comment-2593</guid>
		<description>WHy is it a pipe dream to believe that elected officials should want to serve the public?  I would say that that cyncism of politicians running only to get elected would extend all the way up the ladder.  Can we really be saying here that less checks and balances less elected positions and more appointed positions by that fewer number of &quot;elected&quot; officials woud be a better way to govern? 

That would be like saying the GCP should run the world.  I am not ready for that kind of governance, are you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WHy is it a pipe dream to believe that elected officials should want to serve the public?  I would say that that cyncism of politicians running only to get elected would extend all the way up the ladder.  Can we really be saying here that less checks and balances less elected positions and more appointed positions by that fewer number of &#8220;elected&#8221; officials woud be a better way to govern? </p>
<p>That would be like saying the GCP should run the world.  I am not ready for that kind of governance, are you?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: roldo bartimole</title>
		<link>http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2008/roldo-on-proposed-cuyahoga-county-reforms/comment-page-1#comment-2592</link>
		<dc:creator>roldo bartimole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/?p=525#comment-2592</guid>
		<description>J - thought I explained it above. All three would be under one elected official.

We differ on the hundreds of millions spent on the two stadiums and arena and the tens of million not paid in property taxes as they are all tax exempt.

Why shouldn&#039;t the teams pay the cost?

Don&#039;t you pay for your home, your office?

The Republicans, I believe, voted against because there
 was no body elected from districts around the county, which would have given Republicans a chance to win some of the seats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J &#8211; thought I explained it above. All three would be under one elected official.</p>
<p>We differ on the hundreds of millions spent on the two stadiums and arena and the tens of million not paid in property taxes as they are all tax exempt.</p>
<p>Why shouldn&#8217;t the teams pay the cost?</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you pay for your home, your office?</p>
<p>The Republicans, I believe, voted against because there<br />
 was no body elected from districts around the county, which would have given Republicans a chance to win some of the seats.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: steve stepak</title>
		<link>http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2008/roldo-on-proposed-cuyahoga-county-reforms/comment-page-1#comment-2591</link>
		<dc:creator>steve stepak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/?p=525#comment-2591</guid>
		<description>Some counties have 4 or 5 commissioners and 6 serving as chair.

Each of the 4 or 5 are elected by region/ward within the county. The chair is elected the all regions in an &quot;at-large&quot; position.

The elections are non-partisan. What wrong with that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some counties have 4 or 5 commissioners and 6 serving as chair.</p>
<p>Each of the 4 or 5 are elected by region/ward within the county. The chair is elected the all regions in an &#8220;at-large&#8221; position.</p>
<p>The elections are non-partisan. What wrong with that?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: J Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2008/roldo-on-proposed-cuyahoga-county-reforms/comment-page-1#comment-2589</link>
		<dc:creator>J Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/?p=525#comment-2589</guid>
		<description>Ed, yes, there are too many public employees--because they are given staff jobs with salaries but no public service role in between the campaigns that is their real function. Reduce the number of elected positions--such as treasurer, recorder, and auditor--and you will automatically reduce staffs, because the elected people now filling those offices and staffing them with their incompetent cronies would be out, and professionals who would staff those positions with other professionals would be in. If they were accountable for their budgets and head counts to a single executive, it would be even better because accountability would be better.

Roldo, I think the Republicans voted against the final report because they wanted a single county executive, not because they favor electing all these positions. 

I do not and never will defend Gateway and its associated projects and arguments. Sports stadia create many fewer permanent, good paying jobs than their advocates claim. I don&#039;t think their &quot;costing&quot; as much as you claim, though, but that&#039;s because you and I have different world views. I do not count revenues that governments could have gotten in some theoretical world but didn&#039;t get because of tax breaks as &quot;cost&quot; or &quot;lost.&quot; Without the project, those revenues would have been zero.

You still haven&#039;t explained why treasurer, recorder, and auditor should be elective positions.

Gloria, nice idea in theory, but in practice Hah! The people who run for office are politicians, not auditors, treasurers, or administrators. They win elections by being good at winning elections. Competent professionals are not attracted by having to win elections. So, it&#039;s a nice pipe dream to live in the fantasy world that electing these officials improves something--accountability you call it--but the reality is that we get politicians and their cronies performing critical functions that serve the public. I&#039;m all for transparency and accountability, but those objectives are seldom achieved through the ballot box.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed, yes, there are too many public employees&#8211;because they are given staff jobs with salaries but no public service role in between the campaigns that is their real function. Reduce the number of elected positions&#8211;such as treasurer, recorder, and auditor&#8211;and you will automatically reduce staffs, because the elected people now filling those offices and staffing them with their incompetent cronies would be out, and professionals who would staff those positions with other professionals would be in. If they were accountable for their budgets and head counts to a single executive, it would be even better because accountability would be better.</p>
<p>Roldo, I think the Republicans voted against the final report because they wanted a single county executive, not because they favor electing all these positions. </p>
<p>I do not and never will defend Gateway and its associated projects and arguments. Sports stadia create many fewer permanent, good paying jobs than their advocates claim. I don&#8217;t think their &#8220;costing&#8221; as much as you claim, though, but that&#8217;s because you and I have different world views. I do not count revenues that governments could have gotten in some theoretical world but didn&#8217;t get because of tax breaks as &#8220;cost&#8221; or &#8220;lost.&#8221; Without the project, those revenues would have been zero.</p>
<p>You still haven&#8217;t explained why treasurer, recorder, and auditor should be elective positions.</p>
<p>Gloria, nice idea in theory, but in practice Hah! The people who run for office are politicians, not auditors, treasurers, or administrators. They win elections by being good at winning elections. Competent professionals are not attracted by having to win elections. So, it&#8217;s a nice pipe dream to live in the fantasy world that electing these officials improves something&#8211;accountability you call it&#8211;but the reality is that we get politicians and their cronies performing critical functions that serve the public. I&#8217;m all for transparency and accountability, but those objectives are seldom achieved through the ballot box.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark W. "Some Guy on Bridge" Schumann</title>
		<link>http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2008/roldo-on-proposed-cuyahoga-county-reforms/comment-page-1#comment-2587</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark W. "Some Guy on Bridge" Schumann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/?p=525#comment-2587</guid>
		<description>The Republicans could start by actually running candidates for office here, even if they lose big.

I think they should be kicked off the ballot line if they won&#039;t use it. Perhaps the Libertarians, Greens, or Communists want to be our local opposition party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Republicans could start by actually running candidates for office here, even if they lose big.</p>
<p>I think they should be kicked off the ballot line if they won&#8217;t use it. Perhaps the Libertarians, Greens, or Communists want to be our local opposition party.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: roldo bartimole</title>
		<link>http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2008/roldo-on-proposed-cuyahoga-county-reforms/comment-page-1#comment-2586</link>
		<dc:creator>roldo bartimole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/?p=525#comment-2586</guid>
		<description>Yes, Gloria, although I admit the reasons the mayors opposed do differ from mine. It appears the Republicans are shut out again. It&#039;s really not healthy, as we can see from County government not, not to  have some opposition party to keep the Dems honest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Gloria, although I admit the reasons the mayors opposed do differ from mine. It appears the Republicans are shut out again. It&#8217;s really not healthy, as we can see from County government not, not to  have some opposition party to keep the Dems honest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gloria Ferris</title>
		<link>http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/2008/roldo-on-proposed-cuyahoga-county-reforms/comment-page-1#comment-2585</link>
		<dc:creator>Gloria Ferris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brewedfreshdaily.com/?p=525#comment-2585</guid>
		<description>I for one see no good outcome to having the treasurer APPOINTED.

What happens to the checks and balances need?

If you have the very people overseeing the appointment of the person in charge of the county coffers, how does that make it a better system?

We think that the process is not open and transparent now.  How does making less people accountable to the voting public a better way to go?

Granted, I would say that our voters have not done the best job of voting for competent administrators but have gone with party politics and name recognition, but how does changing our form of government change that outcome?

From my point of view, voting in fewer elected officials only undermines the voting public and the check and balances that are needed so that government can work.

Just because it doesn&#039;t work in Cuyahoga County doesn&#039;t mean that it can&#039;t.

And why were all the models investigated those that have SMALLER legislative bodies.  Were Pittsburgh and Summit County considered?

And Roldo,  I guess that ironically the phrase politics makes for odd bedfellows is proven in this instance in regard to J. Murray and you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I for one see no good outcome to having the treasurer APPOINTED.</p>
<p>What happens to the checks and balances need?</p>
<p>If you have the very people overseeing the appointment of the person in charge of the county coffers, how does that make it a better system?</p>
<p>We think that the process is not open and transparent now.  How does making less people accountable to the voting public a better way to go?</p>
<p>Granted, I would say that our voters have not done the best job of voting for competent administrators but have gone with party politics and name recognition, but how does changing our form of government change that outcome?</p>
<p>From my point of view, voting in fewer elected officials only undermines the voting public and the check and balances that are needed so that government can work.</p>
<p>Just because it doesn&#8217;t work in Cuyahoga County doesn&#8217;t mean that it can&#8217;t.</p>
<p>And why were all the models investigated those that have SMALLER legislative bodies.  Were Pittsburgh and Summit County considered?</p>
<p>And Roldo,  I guess that ironically the phrase politics makes for odd bedfellows is proven in this instance in regard to J. Murray and you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

