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34 Responses to “Map the Mess”

1. J Murray Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 12:55 am

   Democrats, Democrats, Democrats, Democrats. Just reminding everybody.

2. Want to follow Dimora, improve County? Then Map the Mess | Writes Like She Talks Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 1:41 am

   [...] who can beat the title? Read more at Brewed Fresh Daily and Creative Ink [...]

3. Ed Morrison Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 3:07 am

   Your comment adds little, Jonathan (especially on the day after Ted Stevens was indicted).

   The cronyism climate in Cuyahoga County is facilitated by Democratic politicians and abetted by a business leadership that is — my guess — overwhelmingly Republican.

   (Recall that Sam Miller had suggested the George Bush presidential Library be located at CSU. His quote in the PD was memorable: “I would go out and raise money for it. May God kill me if I’m lying.”)

   What’s really amiss is the virtually total breakdown of any civic leadership in the County.

   Exhibit A: We now have a $400 million decision (where to locate the convention center) being made largely behind closed doors (according to one knowledgeable insider from the City who has been involved with convention center issues for over a decade) by two people: Joe Roman and Fred Nance. Nope. I’m afraid party has little to do with the mess in Cuyahoga County.

   The challenge comes in finding new ways to hold public officials and civic business leaders accountable. Web 2.0 provides new avenues to transparency in government. Social network analysis — used to uncover covert networks — may be helpful in accelerating reform.

   Map the Mess is an experiment in using these tools, an experiment — given the dire circumstances of the County — well worth trying.

4. J Murray Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 12:48 pm

   Ed, I’m not trying to be helpful. I’m trying to make a point, several points, really: 1. Political corruption is a systemic, not one-party problem; 2. The Bush administration is, despite wails of protest over hiring at the Justice Department, non-denominational in its pursuit of political corruption. Stevens: Republican. Dimora and Russo (and don’t forget Don Perata of California): Democratic.

   I say go back to citizen-legislators. Make them all–county, state, federal–get real jobs and have to make payroll. The result will be a lot less legislation, a lot less regulation, a lot less spending, and a lot less taxation.

5. Mark W. "Some Guy on Bridge" Schumann Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 1:41 pm

   Two words, Jonathan: Don Siegelman.

6. J Murray Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 2:26 pm

   Mark, I’m not sure what your point is. Siegelman was a Democrat from Alabama who served in many positions, including governor. A criminal investigation into allegations of political corruption involving him began in 1999, under the Clinton Justice Department. According to Wikipedia, Siegelman was convicted on “one count of bribery, one count of conspiracy to commit honest services mail fraud, four counts of honest services mail fraud and one count of obstruction of justice.”

   A conspiracy to neutralize Siegelman by Karl Rove has been alleged, which probably is your point. That doesn’t alter the fact that the investigation was initiated by the Clinton Justice Department, or that Siegelman was convicted.

   My read on this is that Siegelman was a career politician, and that we shouldn’t have any career politicians. Make them get real jobs and suffer the results of their own legislative actions.

7. Ed Morrison Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 2:44 pm

   Jonathan:

   The point I’m making is similar, although more expansive. Political corruption includes both public officials and private sector, business enablers.

   The system of corruption that appears to pervade Cuyahoga County does not stop at the four corners of the desks occupied by public office holders.

   Without private sector enablers (co-conspirators, really), public corruption would be largely limited to patronage. That’s a small time game compared to public contracting.

   And if you are not trying to be helpful in cleaning up the mess then, as the old saying goes, you are probably part of the problem.

8. lmcshane Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 3:13 pm

   Could J Murray be referring to this raid as a swift boat attack on the Democratic nominee for president?

9. J Murray Says:
   August 1st, 2008 at 9:24 pm

   Ed, it’s unfair of you to suggest that I am “probably part of the problem,” and you should know that. You can check with anybody about my integrity, and you should before you make statements like that.

   As to the solution, I’m on the record with my suggestions. All legislators should be part-time, and have real jobs the rest of the time. The result of their having to live with their own legislation would be less laws, less regulation, less spending, less taxation, and less corruption. And the laws, regulations, spending, and taxation we would have would be the right mix.

   To enforce this regime, the citizens should restrict the money available to politicians, perhaps by constitutional amendment, to a fixed percentage of the state economy–no more than 2-3%.

10. John Ettorre Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 1:02 am

    This notion of less laws and less regulations is a familiar Republican trope, but I would think that anyone who has watched the serial disasters it’s produced in the last 35 years should be persuaded otherwise. We’ve tried that approach, and it hasn’t worked. Anyone who isn’t blinded by ideology can plainly see that.

11. Ed Morrison Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    Jonathan:

    You once again missed my point. The point is not to question your integrity. You cannot be in the business you are in without having a sterling professional reputation. I respect that.

    My point has to do with our joint and several responsibilities as citizens.

    We have responsibilities as citizens to exercise oversight over our political leaders. In this job, we have failed in Cuyahoga County.

    There are a number of reasons for this failure. I’ll go through a few.

    First, until recently, the PD has had a publisher who has been largely complicit in silently accessing to business as usual in the county. The PD was part of the game (including, remarkably, a “Forest City blog” to serve as a mouthpiece prior to the casino vote).

    Virtually no investigative reporting took place on Alex Machaskee’s watch. When an investigation did appear (like the exploration of the region’s economic development organizations by Becky Gaylord, et. al), the investigation quickly disappeared.

    Thankfully, this pattern is changing.

    Then there is the complicity of the Greater Cleveland Partnership. The scale of public corruption in Cuyahoga County could not exist without sophisticated business support.

    This support reaches to the highest levels of the GCP, in my view. At the very least, the GCP’s leadership has accepted the pattern of cronyism and insider dealing that is well known in the County.

    (This pattern came to light in the letters David Goldberg sent to the County complaining about the process by which the County provided preferential treatment to Jacobs in the County office building decision.)

    This situation will change only when enough members of the business community step forward and change the dynamic at the Board level of the GCP.

    Finally, there is the role that you and I play. We are busy professionals with little time. But we do have some skills and perspectives that can help.

    When I say you are “part of the problem”, I am only suggesting that you join me in rolling up our sleeves (if only for a few minutes) and help in revealing unacceptable way this county operates.

    I have chosen to contribute with a web site: map the Mess: http://mapthemess.net. Using powerful Web 2.0 tools and social network mapping, we are collecting information so that engaged citizens of the county can review and understand the information being generated from a variety of sources.

    How you choose to be involved is up to you.

    Here’s what you could do:

    1. Write a letter (assuming you are a member of the GCP) to the Board of the GCP requesting a release of all documents relating to the Convention Center/Med Mart decision. The culture of secrecy surrounding this issue is part of the problem in Cuyahoga County. Secrecy enables corruption to thrive.

    (If you want to be more assertive, request release of any GCP documents or correspondence relating to the existing probe of the Juvenile Justice Center and Ameritrust.)

    2. Write a letter to the PD’s new publisher praising the effort they has been making in uncovering corruption.

    3. Make a contribution to ideastream. The Sound of Ideas program in particular has played an important role in helping us understand the dimensions of the challenges ahead for this County. Introduce yourself to Dan Mouthrop or Paul Cox who are responsible for the show.

    4. Attend the County reform commission hearing next week and voice your views. This is a promising opportunity to depart from old ways of doing business in the County.

    The risk is that the recommendations will not go far enough. You are an articulate spokesperson for a clear point of view of dramatic reform. Although I do not agree with many of your positions, your participation in this hearing send a strong message that business as usual will not cut it.

    Just some suggestions, Jonathan.

12. J Murray Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    John, you’re the one blinded by ideology. We have too many stupid laws and regulations, and they have caused many of the problems we are seeing.

    Take the mortgage mess, which is due to the Congressionally chartered Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, which Congress gave broad latitude to operate with lax lending standards and weaker oversight than commercial banks–in return for mega-campaign donations.

    Now, it is true that more regulation and oversight of the FMs would have beneficial, but those who tried to increase oversight of the FMs (including the Bush administration) were hounded and stymied by the FMs lobbying in Congress. The problem was created, though, by act of Congress in the first place. The government (more accurately, the taxpayer) should not be in the business of backstopping the mortgage market. We would be better served with their liquidation.

    Or take the recent overreaching of the FCC in asserting that it has the right to tell Comcast how to manage its network. If upheld in court (which it won’t be) this would have the effect of restricting competition, diminishing service, and raising costs for Internet access as the majority of consumers subsidize the heavy users of bandwidth. We don’t need management of private networks to be micromanaged by unelected bureaucrats in Washington.

    Or take the Congressional restrictions on oil and gas drilling, which have limited domestic supplies, made us more dependent on imported oil and gas, and directly contributed to $4 a gallon gas. This was a deliberate act of Congress, with predictable results, that the American people did not need. The Congressional reaction? Ideological folly: blame “speculators” and oil companies for high prices, as if Congressional drilling restrictions had no effect on supply.

    I could go on and one, but you’re probably not listening.

13. J Murray Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    Ed, thanks. Good ideas. I take your point.

14. John Ettorre Says:
    August 2nd, 2008 at 8:38 pm

    J, you would have been a great addition to Heinrich Himler’s propaganda team in the ’30s. Your ability to ignore inconvenient facts is nothing short of inspired.

    Your last point about domestic restrictions on drilling leading to higher prices on gas is silliest of all. Even the Bush Administration’s own Dept. of Energy has dismissed that as a serious contributor to the problem, and several leading media outlets have layed out the real facts and utterly demolished that argument. And yet, you just go on blithely repeating the patent nonsense anyway. Do you think BFD readers are stupid or merely deeply uninformed?

    And it’s downright bizarre to complain about FCC regulations, since the FCC has been all but defanged by Republican administrations since Reagan’s (his FCC chairman famously called TV “toasters with pictures” in dismissing the notion that ownership regulations should be continued), which has lead directly to a concentration of large media in the hands of a few companies. Again, this is pretty widely understood by even moderately informed people. Facts are inconvenient things sometimes, but honest people can’t simply wish them away.

15. J Murray Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    John, What is “silliest of all” is how effective Marxist-inspired, anti-capitalist, environmentalist propaganda is in convincing even supposedly educated people like you that the laws of supply and demand do not apply to the oil industry. Of course with more domestic supply prices would be lower and we would be less beholden to imported oil and its purveyors. This should be as self-evident as it is that the sun will rise tomorrow. You should immediately seek a refund on your expensive, but useless college education.

    As to the canard of media concentration, the last time I looked, people under 25 were doing all their news-gathering on-line, making the backward-looking argument about regional geographic concentration in the television and newspaper businesses ridiculous. News and entertainment is a global business, and I can just as easily read the Irish Times as watch Channel 8 evening news. Concentration has led to more competition, not less. I’ll also point out, which is also “pretty widely understood by even moderately informed people” that the traditional media companies–even after consolidation–are much LESS profitable than they were before. Isn’t the reduction in “evil” profits one of the goals of the left?

    Sheesh, what alternative reality are you living it?

16. Mark W. "Some Guy on Bridge" Schumann Says:
    August 4th, 2008 at 10:42 am

    Whoops, I thought this was the “civility” thread. My mistake. Moving along.

17. roldo bartimole Says:
    August 4th, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    IF YOU WANT TO CORRUPT A CONVERSATON,BEGIN BY “ANSWERING” JONATHAN’S RUBBISH.

18. lmcshane Says:
    August 4th, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    Roldo–I can’t believe I am defending J Murray, but he makes a valid argument, when he says:
    Ed, I’m not trying to be helpful. I’m trying to make a point, several points, really: 1. Political corruption is a systemic, not one-party problem; 2. The Bush administration is, despite wails of protest over hiring at the Justice Department, non-denominational in its pursuit of political corruption. Stevens: Republican. Dimora and Russo (and don’t forget Don Perata of California): Democratic.

    I say go back to citizen-legislators. Make them all–county, state, federal–get real jobs and have to make payroll. The result will be a lot less legislation, a lot less regulation, a lot less spending, and a lot less taxation.
    All in all, we have to start paying attention to what EVERY one is saying and sift through it for the TRUTH.

19. Mark W. "Some Guy on Bridge" Schumann Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 3:58 am

    I don’t know what makes anyone think politicians will get “real jobs” simply because they’re not being paid on a full-time basis.

    I mean, when the heck did George W. Bush have a real job?

20. J Murray Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    Mark, you missed the point: I specified “legislators” not executives. Being an executive, like President or governor, is a full-time job. As far as I can tell, though, legislators spend most of their time on junkets, leaking to the media, or engaging in bombastic public harangues of people who are trying to earn a living. Or cooking up some crazy nonsense like a “windfall profits tax” on oil companies.

    Roldo, your problem is that you are unwilling to consider points-of-view with which you disagree as having any legitimacy. (Thank you, lmcshane, for taking the opposite approach). That just makes you, Roldo, a narrow ideologue spouting a preconceived “Party” line, rather than a seeker of truth. Live in your narrow world if you wish; it’s your loss.

21. Tom Z(ych) Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    this is sad. This thread is now nothing but name calling and bumper sticker sloganeering. Unfortunately, that is largely what has become of the political discourse in the blogosphere. I’m not picking on this particular blog, though. Having paid very close attention to the discussions in the various media this political (silly) season, I am now convinced empirically that the shallowest discussions happen in the blogosphere, that the amount of thought necessary to create a 100 word post is about the lowest common denominator, and that I’ve been as guilty as anyone. Name calling and talking past each other is not discourse. That takes listening, and there’s little of that going on here.

22. lmcshane Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    Blogs remind me of pet rocks, earth sandals, lip smackers, mood rings. We’re all just a little bit older now, but still hung up on fads Will we look back on blogs and laugh?

23. Ed Morrison Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    This exchange is why I really enjoy BFD. Where else in Cleveland can people disagree like this and still be (somewhat) civil to each other?

    While we still have a ways to go in learning how to disagree, BFD provides what few political, business and foundation leaders in Cleveland have yet to master…My sense is that our current crop of “leaders” fear openness. As I have said elsewhere, they would prefer to privatize the public’s business…narrow decisions to a handful of “leaders”. (MedMart, anyone?)

    That’s a bad mistake in a world of increasing complexity. As Brooke Harrington, professor of public policy at Brown has reinforced, the more complex the environment, the more diverse viewpoints matter. In handling complex environments (like stock markets, for example) larger, more diverse groups perform better than smaller, less diverse groups.

    Well, there are not too many human-generated systems that are more complex than regional economies. Yet, somehow, in Northeast Ohio, a relative handful of people (less than fifty by my count) think they know the answers.

    The poor quality of civic discourse is one major reason, in my view, that Cleveland ranks near the top in poverty and near the bottom in educational attainment. It’s one reason innovation is so hard here. Leaders in Cleveland, I think, fundamentally distrust each other, and why not? Their behavior is untrustworthy.

    NEO is the slowest growth corner of the slowest growth state in the slowest growth region of the country. There’s a reason.

    Recall that our “leaders” are pushing a $400 million public convention center as a “keystone” project It’s a thirty year old economic development strategy that does not work.

    The only logic is internal to the politics of Forest City and the City. A convention center represents the last chance to “save” a failed downtown shopping mall. Tower City is the project that is devouring Cleveland.

    If that’s not an example of the failure of civic leadership and a failed civic process, I’d be hard pressed to come up with a better one.

    My guess: a group of 100 citizens in six hours could come up with more practical, more transformative action plan for Cleveland.

24. John Ettorre Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    I think Tom Z’s point–as always–is worth some reflection.

25. jmurray Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    Thank you, Tom. I have been arguing for some time that there is a large set of people with preconceived views who ignore evidence that is contrary to their political philosophies. As much as I have tried to point that out here, and elsewhere, I sometimes fear that I am pushing on a string.

26. George Nemeth Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    @lmcshane What’s there to laugh about?

27. lmcshane Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    Should we laugh or cry? Depends on my mood. Back to the crazy world of real people now.

28. Tom Z(ych) Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    J: Do you consider yourself entirely guilt-free?

29. Mark W. "Some Guy on Bridge" Schumann Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    I was recently hearing (admittedly secondhand) some stories about an acquaintance who seems to have a lot of challenges in life. (Okay, it’s gossip. Fine.)

    After about the third thing-that-didn’t-go-right story, I said, “You know what? She keeps doing things that can’t possibly work out for her. That’s the problem.”

    That’s Cleveland in a nutshell. We knew that a big dual-stadium project wasn’t really going to serve the city, but we did it anyway. We knew that Tower City would eat downtown, but we did it anyway. We know that a new convention center will suck millions annually for decades to come–and that the Medical Mart idea is a fraud–but… yeah.

    On the other hand, I’m not so sure a lack of ideas and discussion and consensus from the community is the underlying problem. I believe a great deal of it is plain and simple corruption, which (among other things) kills the incentive to innovate. Why should anyone participate in policy discussions when we know the outcome is guaranteed to be crooked? What good is finding the right path when we know it won’t be followed?

    Jail the crooks first. The rest will follow.

30. Ed Morrison Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    Mark:

    I agree with you to a point.

    Corruption kills economic development. That fact is well established.

    (There is overwhelming statistical evidence that connects high levels of corruption with lower economic performance. See Corruption in Economic Development: Beneficial Grease, Minor Annoyance, or Major Obstacle?)

    Detroit, Cleveland, New Orleans…These are cities plagued by a culture of public abuse for private gain.

    At the same time, new approaches to governance are possible. That’s, I think, where I depart from your view.

31. jmurray Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    Tom, I don’t feel guilty. However, I ascribe to the notion of Original Sin.

32. Mark W. "Some Guy on Bridge" Schumann Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    Ed,

    I agree that “new approaches to governance” are possible, and needed. Do you agree that NA2Gs can’t be implemented when the resources are controlled by crooks?

    I bet the other guy’s bribes and coercion will beat your “new approaches” every time.

    If you disagree, I honestly want to know how you propose a really inclusive planning process can work in an atmosphere of criminality. That would be really cool.

33. John Ettorre Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Note that two of the three cities you mention, Ed, have Newhouse-owned newspapers, which have tended to make their peace with rather than expose regional and municipal corruption. Where strong, aggressive, fearless newspapers exist, systemic, large-scale political corruption is much harder, if not impossible, to sustain.

34. John Ettorre Says:
    August 5th, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    I should have mentioned those two cities in question with Newhouse-owned papers: New Orleans and Cleveland.