And the two locations have been narrowed down to the current convention center location and the mall and Tower City/Dillards/May Co. complex. Let’s see Tower City has convenient public access to hotels, transportation, the airport, restaurants, sports facilities…and so, no doubt, the commissioners will pick the convention center site. Any one taking bets?
Monday we met with a group of international visitors who find Americans humorous because we will hop a bus, call a cab or get into our own vehicle for a six block walk. Could we call it Fear of Walking?
Three of the women were leaving the hotel as we were walking one block to our car. They were on their way to Reserve Square at E. 12. They started out on the sidewalk only to detour into the street why? The sidewalk was too slippery and blocked because of mounds of snow.
Can you say cost over runs? At least everyone involved still has the time to see the light…and for tax payers to get “their” money back. If you think the county and city can properly manage this “public-private” partnership, I’ve got some swamp land you might want to buy.
Gloria, I noticed the same thing when I moved here 17 years ago. Ron Tober, the head of the RTA at the time, lamented that Clevelander’s unwillingness to walk two blocks was one of the reasons they never warmed to public transit. Does anyone have an idea of the source of Clevelander’s reluctance to walk? I haven’t noticed it in other Midwest cities.
I noticed one of the other area bloggers posting about how she could ride public transit in other cities, but not here at home. What is it that causes Clevelanders to have those irrational fears? Not enough sunlight?
My guess, Doug’s right. Fear has a lot to do with it, based on a conversation I had in Milwaukee last week.
On our way to the airport, a senior Labor Department official told me how in her last visit to Cleveland a couple of years ago, someone recommended that she take the RTA into downtown from the airport.
She told me that it was late at night, and no one was around. She felt very unsafe on the platform.
This story comes from a woman who grew up in Chicago.
Now here’s another story about Tower City. When I first moved back to Cleveland, I had a meeting at Tower City. Aside from the really bad parking situation — poor lighting, broken pavement, and no signs to the elevators — I encountered a startling sign on the vestibule to the elevators. I remember it making reference to guns.
There’s a siege mentality in some parts of Cleveland, and fear begets fear.
Okay RTA–put out some docents–people who like to talk. Pay them some nominal amount or reward them with recognition. There are a lot of people who want to help other people find their way. Yesterday, a bunch of girls helped me to navigate the changes to the RTA system and while I waited for the now Route 3, instead of the 3/26, three people engaged me in conversation about movies, books and living in Cleveland. On the surface, some of the people who helped me yesterday might have one thing in common–they were all African-American–which brings us back to irrational fears…
At the bus stop, yesterday, we talked about the palpable fear in the black community. The woman I sat with described her fears. We talked about politics and Ron Brown. I have those fears, too.
But back to lighting…we could use some better lighting at the Airport RTA. Seriously, very dreary and sad the last time I saw it. Mental note to myself to take the trip again and one very obvious and easy way to make the highly theoretical Medical Mart trip downtown, worthwhile and pleasant.
Aside from safety my understanding is Cleveland’s RTA isn’t the easiest to figure out so who wants the hassle. My fiance’s oldest son gets a ride home from Max Hayes because we don’t want him riding the RTA or the school bus. Why put your life, or your child’s life in the hands of incompetent people?
Discussions like this sometimes confound me. For example, any competent organization first ensures the safety of it’s constituents. When Sanders became CEO of the CMSD his first priority should have been safety but was it? No, school uniforms were and we saw the results with the SuccessTech shooting. If I saw that the RTA’s first priority was safety and was successfully dealing with it visibly I might give it a ride.
The Cleveland Convention Center Med Mart will become a good case study in an urban planning course.
The old joke about launching a software company comes to mind. What’s the first step in launching a new software product? Print the T- Shirts.
Here we’ve got a process that’s almost completely backwards and upside down.
First, you put the financing in place with a tax. Next, you figure out who the operator will be. Next, you determine the location. (I suppose the next step will be to do a market analysis and come up with a business case…but that might be skipped.)
The latest step in this process: Appoint a blue ribbon panel (of mostly white men) to decide where to locate the convention center. Forget that this panel has no experience in convention siting. (What happened to the planning commission?)
I say let’s skip this step entirely, build an upside down convention center right smack dab in the middle of Tower City, where Forest City wants it to go, and be done with it. Commissioner Hagan is right: More public debate is an unnecessary distraction…an annoyance, really.
After all, isn’t ten years enough time to be chasing entry level tourism jobs?
Let’s remember to include just one design feature: We need to engrave the names of the Commissioners and everyone else involved in this process on brass plaque for all to see.
re #18: Yeah, Ed! That’s the spirit, eat it raw, rah, rah, rah! Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together try to love one another right now - Everybody sing!
Ed, I think you’re on to something - Tower City is the spot! Let’s stop dreaming and get this root canal underway. We’ll all feel a lot better once the anesthetic is administered and the drilling has begun. I want my invitation to the Bellhop’s Ball – the fancy one they’ll throw when they have had a year of raking in the cash from this cow.
(By the way, if you haven’t visited the existing convention center in a while, take a tour via the groupplan link in civil society at dhellison.com - Playhouse Square should restore and program these spaces.)
Has anyone seen any rats around the big hole in Public Square? This could be a deterrent for siting it there. Of course, we could be sure to avoid that by giving all the homeless people a ticket to ride. Ah, today in bleakland, I have a song in my heart apparently…
re #12: Cleveland is scary, but so are other cities. Taking the train or bus alone late at night in any city can be a risky proposition. Just being a taxpayer and never leaving your home in Cuyahoga County is a scary proposition. I agree that the parking under Tower City is an abomination; they should be admonished for that confusing and unwelcoming space.
In terms of giving RTA feedback, please! How about they just do their job which is what they get paid for. It’s a no brainer that safety MUST be priority #1.
Ed, I agree. At this point let’s just let Cleveland’s command and control jockeys go forward with business as usual…Cleveland business. Hagan doesn’t want debate because he knows constituents don’t want what will get him votes so ignore them. Afterall, our problems are are the fault of the local population, not out leaders.
Yes, other cities have crime but in Chicago, for example, they have a critical mass where if something bad happens I feel like I have a chance to get help.
Rate this comment: --3 | March 16, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
Mark W. Schumann (Some Guy on Bridge), formerly known as Some Guy on Mapledale:
Great timing on this subject. I just flew in from Portland, and my arms are really tired.
From the Continental concourse to baggage claim, there is no sign at all of public transportation at the airport. There is no way to know that there’s a train downtown, nor how to get to it.
And to pick up on lmcshane’s comment #10, I met a really cool black guy on the train towards West 25th. (I happen to be pasty Irish.) He was from out of town and needed some help navigating RTA.
My new pal was here for treatment for an injury from when he “used to play a little football.” Turns out, this guy I didn’t recognize is used to be a wide receiver for the Redskins and has played in the Super Bowl.
It would have been neat if I were more of a football fan.
One other thing: the airport RTA platform feels a little isolated, but you can wait (warmly) inside and see the trains coming.
Mark W. Schumann (Some Guy on Bridge), formerly known as Some Guy on Mapledale:
From the WKYC.com posting:
It’s estimated the project will generate millions of dollars for the Cleveland economy by bringing in 50 medical trade shows a year.
Always beware of passive voice.
This “estimate,” which was pushed by CVB and Cleveland-plus people, and repeated as truth by Tom Mulready, was thoroughly debunked right here on BFD. It’s nonsense.
What I gather from all of this is that, if we all weren’t so cute and irresistible, we’d be a lot safer?
A lot of this is fostered by an us/them/those people mentality in this area, as well. We aren’t what you would call accepting, non-judgmental, unbiased, or cosmopolitan. We’re very class-conscious, and use it like a club, and my criticism is not confined to one class–all are guilty. The side effect is the fear, the distrust, the suspicion you’re all talking about. We are pitted against each other, and conditioned to prey on each other, and to fear being preyed upon.
Too bad we don’t have to unite to fight against wild animals, or something.
Well, so much for luck of the Irish–this dumb Irish broad got stuck down at the West Side Market, while four RTA buses passed, packed to capacity. I walked home most of the way before I caught the circulator at Clark. RTA–shame on you for poor performance today. I was scheduled off, but I waited in vain with other people who needed to get to work at Metro and Steelyard Commons.
Mark W. Schumann (Some Guy on Bridge), formerly known as Some Guy on Mapledale:
@lmcshane #27… you do not want to get me started on public transportation in Portland, Oregon, where I spent half of last week.
But I will say that I walked four short blocks to my bus stop–on a peripheral, non-downtown route–caught my ride exactly on schedule, and made an easy connection to the light rail to the airport.
No big deal, except it was 9pm on a Saturday. Would you try that in Cleveland?
Back to the Medical Mart–the thing is, Cleveland “leadership” keeps pushing big-ticket tourist attractions when the fact of the matter is that basic services suck. The buses run late or skip trips entirely. The schools are unsafe. You can’t even find the airport rapid station without psychic powers. It takes four days to plow side streets. Housing codes aren’t enforced. The county buys an office building only to strip its asbestos and sell it again. You have to pick your away among the potholes. Nobody can account for the $500MM school construction bond money.
Instead of pursuing this tourist nonsense, how about if we work on developing a healthy city? We could start with replacing two out of three county commissioners and convening a federal grand jury to look into some of the shadier practices of local government.
Mark–yes, I know you..and your family (all big library customers)…and all you say in #30 is true. I am tired. You are tired. Tim is tired (and grumpy). We all live here. I am sick of the neglect and the criminal waste of the public dollar. Tim, doesn’t say it, but we all have the means to run away, but we don’t. I am at least grateful for that on this Saint’s Day…
Look on the bright side. We may finally be ending the debate over a convention center in Cleveland, a thirty year old idea that is at least ten years late.
When this little buddy gets built (to rescue Tower City, I suspect), perhaps the City’s leadership will move on to something else.
Just think of what they have put the city through in the last decade…20+ studies (by their count), a knucklehead casino referendum that took 2+ years, and now a classic — albeit somewhat clumsy — power move (what we used to call a “cram down” when I worked on Capitol Hill) to design, site, finance and build a convention center without substantive public involvement.
It’s the last big box in Cleveland. The City and the County won’t be building any more big projects anytime soon, for the simple reason that the public funds have been pretty much exhausted. Local taxes — already the highest in the Midwest — can’t go much higher.
We are watching the sad end of an era in Cleveland, but — and here’s the good news — it is the end of an era.
We should salute our “leaders” for their efforts, and suggest to them, politely, that it is now time to retire.
#10 wrote: Okay RTA–put out some docents–people who like to talk. Pay them some nominal amount or reward them with recognition. There are a lot of people who want to help other people find their way.
You are correct. All City Year volunteers are trained to answer RTA questions and help strangers, as trolley operators/ambassadors, all RTA employees (I help 2-3 people a week) and those yellow jacketed members of Downtown Cleveland Alliance crews.
#16 asked if safety was an RTA priority, and then wrote “Why put your life, or your child’s life, in the hands of incompetent people?”
In recent years, RTA has elevated the status of the Safety Director, thus attracting more qualified applicants. The current safety director is an engineer, and she has worked hard to make everyone more aware of safety at RTA. Among other things, employees who do things “above and beyond” are recognized each month by their peers as “Champions of Safety.” An Executive Safety Committee was formed at the highest levels, and members meet monthly to discuss concerns. And, safety is part of the quarterly RTA Report Card — have you ever read it? Just go to rideRTA.com. Click on newsroom and then select “Report Card”.
The remark about hiring “incompetent people” is way out in left field. If you have definite comments about a particular day and time that a single event occurred, then report it, as someone else already directed you to. I ride RTA daily, and I often give my bosses comments and suggestions as to how to improve service.
By the way, RTA staff rides the vehicles more than 1.3 million times each year.
Someone sent me an email saying today is Hagan’s birthday. He’s 62. Social Security kicks in at 62 for those who are eligible.
Don’t I hear the call of Hyannisport on the wind? Max Kennedy’s house was listed in Forbes for a mere $6 million a in the fall of 06. It probably sold, but surely there are more homes for sale in the hood at the swanky kennedyhaven on the eastcoast. Be all that you can be Tim! Be retired - outside Cuyahoga County… heck get an alpaca farm or something.
Regarding comments about the airport signage….RTA’s Marketing Department has been working with the staff at Hopkins to increase the visibility of public transit. If you have concrete suggestions or comments, please send them to me at jmasek@gcrta.org, and I will pass them along to people who can make them happen — if they are workable.
One of my personal pet peeves: If you REALLY want to make a difference, why complain here, to people who can’t change anything? Use your time and energy to write to those who spend 40-50 hours (or more) each week to improve public transit. That’s my opinion, and I am sticking to it.
#27 wrote: “Well, so much for luck of the Irish–this dumb Irish broad got stuck down at the West Side Market, while four RTA buses passed, packed to capacity. I walked home most of the way before I caught the circulator at Clark. RTA–shame on you for poor performance today.”
I am sorry you could not get a ride home when you needed one, but some 300,000 people came out for the parade and the parties, and many chose RTA. We spent days preparing for this special event, learning from past years what works at what does not. Shame on RTA because our buses were packed to capacity? No, that’s a good thing — it means our service is being used and your tax dollars are being used efficiently. There was extra rail service all day long, and there was extra staff on hand to help keep the crowds moving. Extra bus service is much harder to predict and to schedule.
I forgot to introduce myself. I am a Public Information Officer at RTA. A former reporter for The Cleveland Press and former Press Secretary to Mayor Voinovich, I served seven years here as Media Relations Manager. Now, I am Publications Manager.
Thanks for commenting, Jerry. You make a good argument for letter-writing to RTA folks such as yourself, but I think even you could admit that it’s not so nice to suggest that leaving comments here is complaining to people who can’t change anything.
You came here and engaged with people who hadn’t written or called RTA? Isn’t that something? Shouldn’t people use whatever outlets they find available or feel comfortable using? As a former ombuds at a mental health agency, I know sometimes all people want to do is to complain - they don’t need change or have an expectation (reasonable or unreasonable) that something will be or even should be changed.
Rate this comment: --2 | March 18, 2008 @ 10:12 am
Taxing capacity is limited. The real cost of the Con Center decision is the opportunity cost. In my view, we need financial flexibility and focused investments in our educational institutions.
Investing in a convention center in an exceptionally weak market will tie the County’s hands for a generation to come.
Jill, I hear you, and would never want to infringe on anyone’s right to free speech. However, I am personally against spreading stress and negativity. Sitting on the Rapid, I hear people complaining all the time, about a wide variety of subjects, to persons who have no control over the issues being discussed. That’s one habit I hope I never fall into.
Smiling - yes, I bet you do hear that! I think folks here at BFD are far closer to action-taking than many on the RTA services, but still - you know, sometimes we need to sort it out, sound it out, before we’re ready to write the letter or pick up the phone. I give you big kudos for “being where the client is” so to speak. With more places than just the letter to the editor page to find public concerns voiced, it’s not so easy, I’m sure - but your doing it puts you and RTA above a lot of others.
Rate this comment: --2 | March 18, 2008 @ 10:38 am
Just to add my two cents to the discussion so that people don’t think RTA is some monstrous public transit system to be avoided at all costs…
I have ridden RTA literally thousands of times and honestly, I can count on one hand the number of times I felt even remotely unsafe. I have been late to work because of RTA exactly twice (the second time was probably my own fault - I tried to take the train the day after the big ice storm this month, even though I knew it wasn’t running right. If I’d taken the bus as was my first inclination, I wouldn’t have been late.) Taking the F-train into Manhattan from Queens, I was late to work all the time.
I admit, RTA is not the most intuitive system for outsiders, but neither is the New York City subway system compared to, say, the London Underground. But I think RTA works well for people who live here and know how to use it. I moved back to Cleveland with a little trepidation - was I really going to be able to go car-free? Frankly, I’ve got more public transit service in Ohio City than I did in my neighborhood in Queens. If RTA didn’t have such extensive, frequent service to where I want to go, I never would have even considered moving back here. So I’m grateful.
Jerry–if you look at your records, you will know that I have submitted comments and have used RTA as primary transportation since returning to Cleveland in 1992. You also know that there is a two-tier system of service. Comfortable, plush suburban vs. cattle car urban. I am not some fly-by-night customer. RTA’s drivers are heroic in their ability to serve the public. The administrators need to work on their game and provide some dignity to the people who use the heavily trafficked urban lines. While, I am glad that RTA was the mode of transportation, yesterday–your administrators have to acknowledge that service is not an option, it’s an obligation.
Mark W. Schumann (Some Guy on Bridge), formerly known as Some Guy on Mapledale:
Jerry, when I submitted a complaint and request for refund last year for a bus that never showed up (thus wasting half of my day pass), there was no response at all from RTA.
I’m sure you’d prefer for public service complaints to be handled privately, but it hasn’t worked out so well for me.
Thanks for riding RTA, and thanks for submitting comments. When you mention “plush suburban,” I assume you are referring to MCI over-the-road coaches that serve RTA Park-N-Ride lots. They have just one door in the front, and thus cannot be used on many fixed routes. As you know, most buses have two doors — enter in the front and exit from the back. The Park-n-Ride service costs us more to operate — the buses are more expensive and the lots cost more to build than your usual bus shelter. So, we also charge more to ride them. I am sorry you view it as “comfortable plush suburban vs. cattle car urban.” I agree that “service is not an option, it’s an obligation.” Several times in recent years, I have arrived at the Puritas Station on my way home, and ran into a customer who had “unusual circumstances” and could not wait for the next bus. Each time, I took the customer home in my car. I do not do that lightly, or often. Other times, if a customer there was scared, or new to transit, I would wait (at a distance) until the next bus arrived. The bottom line: RTA administrators care as much as the operators do. Sometimes, circumstances and resources work against us, but we always strive to do what we can with the cards we are dealt. Thanks for riding.
And not to beat a dead horse, but this is a legitimate forum. It’s the new way of making oneself heard and if it bothers the status quo, then, it should. That’s the idea. I have tried all of the “legitimate” routes of communication, including applying to serve on the citizen advisory board (never heard back). Overall, I am glad that RTA makes Cleveland a better city, than say, Detroit (!) or San Juan PR, where they run the same cattle car buses (the low riders) you see here in Cleveland, but we can and should do better. Thank you for listening and for paying attention to this forum.
“I have tried all “legitimate” routes of communication, including applying to serve on the citizen advisory board (never heard back).”
Vacancies occur on the Citizens Advisory Board several times a year, and past applications are still in the stack. There are now four openings, so the selection committee will meet soon. You may yet get a call. Yes, a letter or phone call would have been nice, but I know that I have been interviewed at companies far larger than RTA, and they never called me to tell me someone else had been picked…I had to read it in the newspaper.
Mark W. Schumann (Some Guy on Bridge), formerly known as Some Guy on Mapledale:
Coming back to the ostensible topic… poor experiences with RTA and basic city services erode any faith we may have otherwise had in the Medical Mart deal.
Of course, having representatives of CVB making up projections and passing them off as “research” didn’t help.
The point is, if the “leadership” wants public support–and maybe they don’t?–they can start by acting competent and trustworthy. Such as, for example, doing basic and inexpensive (competent) things like putting the correct stop numbers on shelters. Or (trustworthy) not spending millions of taxpayer dollars on a business run by close friends of a county commissioner.
There’s always places like Egypt where women used to be allowed only in 2nd class but often rode in 3rd class with animals. I played up my obvious tourist status and sat encased in a sleeping bag in 1st class - to keep my entire body covered up.
#54 has a great point.
Can Mr. Masek provide some of the rationale behind the Euclid Corridor project? Specifically, did it take into account an increased in ridership based on a convention center (if any)?
“Any chance of getting a park & ride to Medina? Maybe a circulator from Medina to the nearest rapid station?
I’d take it every day.”
Thanks for the comment. About 70 percent of RTA’s general fund (for operations)comes from a one percent countywide sales tax. That means, when you buy something in Cuyahoga County, and it costs $1.00, one penny of the sales tax goes to support RTA. Less than 20 percent of the budget comes from the farebox. To build a Park-n-Ride out of the county would mean taking funding away from the county, so no, RTA is not going to do that. The #451 does go as far south as Laurel Square in Brunswick. Check that schedule out on rideRTA.com and see if it works for you.
“Can Mr. Masek provide some of the rationale behind the Euclid Corridor project? Specifically, did it take into account an increased in ridership based on a convention center (if any)?”
LONG ANSWER: I am not trying to be funny, but to answer your question completely would take far more time than either you or I have. A complete history of the Project can be found on euclidtransit.org.
SHORT ANSWER: The project was years in the making. The Convention Center and Medical Mart issues are really recent developments. A large increase in ridership is projected, with or without a convention center.
The Medical Mart could become more than its current scope of vision. If facilitated wisely, it could be a comprehensive model that helps to alleviate poverty, model sustainability and transform lives holistically. Can we stretch ourselves to leverage the economic, environmental and human capital that is buried beneath the millions?
As a poverty initiative: commit that 50% of all project workers (from planning, to construction to providers) are people currently living below poverty and are trained and employed to be a part of the project. Further commit by turning every aspect of development into a learning lab for Cleveland high school and community college students. Better yet, assign every student to a 2 year mentoring experience.
As a sustainability initiative: commit to everything GREEN and then further commit to weaving entreprenuership throughout every phase of development. Further compliment this by making the Medical Mart its own GREEN innovation incubator. Pepper it up just a little more by promising that everyone who works there must take a class on sustainability principles to ensure that each and every office worker raises his /her consciousness on a daily level. Spice it up even more through the integration of public art every step of the way.
As a human transformation initiative: create a center for holistic life support for everyone who works on the project and every who will subsequently walk into the building. Ensure that this center of support addresses the mind, body and spirit needs of people. And GUESS HOW THIS IS DONE? Through the interconnection of multi-sector stakeholders who come together to share resource and create common support structures for people.
In this vision - the Medical Mart becomes more about money. It becomes a chance to transform on every level and - more importantly - creates a model of multi-system, multi-level revitalization and regionalism.
We have to learn that “thinking big” is also “thinking deep” - and integrates all of the system stakeholders in every step of the process. To think about financing the project, without simulanteously thinking about the patients served, is an outdated / silo model of economic development AND human development.
Can we think this deep? Can we work at this level of wholeness? Economically, emotionally, physically, creatively, spiritually, environmentally, mentally?
More importantly, can this opportunity for model transformation outweigh self interest?
Physicists now realize our oneness and connectedness at an atom level. Let us challenge ourselves, and our growth initiatives, to replicate the same.
Thanks Jerry, if I may be so informal. This is probably enough of the “mass” in mass transit for you. If we do get the medical mart, I hope that it is situated at Tower City to take advantage of RTA’s redline connection to the airport and other resources. Other developments that could make downtown more attractive would be the completion of the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad to downtown and more people living in the city. I hope it happens in my life time.
I would be happy if the Med Mart/Conv Center would at least hire minority contractors instead of just sending token business to minority front companies and kickbacks to politicians.
And with all due respect, please make the Med Mart/Conv Center solely about money. If this whole adventure can buck the trend of excess conv center supply/decreased convention demand (through GREEN initiatives etc.), then our extra taxes will be justified.
Finally, just to keep with this whole pessimistic theme, perhaps the Conv Center can provide new opportunities for the thousands of Key and NatCity employees who are nervously looking over their shoulder.
Now, if I can just catch the 79X bus out to the suburbs!
“If we do get the medical mart, I hope that it is situated at Tower City to take advantage of RTA’s Red Line connection to the airport and other resources.”
FYI, RTA’s official position is that we are neutral. Whatever is good for Cleveland is good for RTA, and we will provide service to whichever site is chosen.
“So you are telling me that you can not provide service to the fastest growing county in Ohio (Medina) because you are 80% funded by Cuyahoga County (taxpayers)? That is amazing. No wonder why mass tranist systmes are publicly funded. They would fail without tax dollars.”
Every public transit system in the nation has some sort of tax subsidy. So does every other public service, such as police and fire departments. They all exist for the public good.
FYI, transit systems like Laketran in Lake County and Metro in Summit County provide special service to downtown Cleveland for their taxpayers. I am not being flippant (sp?), but if this is an issue in Medina County, then talk to your County Commissioners. There is at least one public transit system in your county.
Your neighbors have already found other solutions.
1. I mentioned the transfer at Laurel Square.
2. Many Medinans drive north on I-71, and then park at the Puritas Station at W. 150 to take the Rapid downtown, thus avoiding $10 or more a day to park.
3. Drive north on I-71 to the Turnpike exit, and use the Park-N-Ride there.
Public transit works best in the central city. The farther out you move, the more benefits you have (like fresh air and lots of land), but the less you have of some urban services, like public transit. It’s a choice you make when you decide where to live.
Then of course, there is “regionalism” and the issue of what it really means. In some states, transit systems in the central county — Cuyahoga — also serves every county that touches it. There are some who believe that would work here, but it would take some work to get there.
Stay tuned, but do not hold your breath — change does not happen quickly.
Why neutral? RTA has spent millions of public dollars on the Euclid Corridor project and at Tower City–who exactly determines “what’s good for Cleveland?” I think you have let the cat out of the bag.
Even if the CC ends up on the existing site, it will still rate exceptionally high as far as proximity to public transportation. It’s basically a walk across Public Square from Tower City. I believe that was Gloria’s point back at #2. But for those who want direct rail service between the airport and CC, all they have to do is jump on the Waterfront Line and enter/exit from the north.
@lmcshane - I learned through many experiences like yours that St. patty’s is the worst day to ride the bus. Drive to a park and ride for the rapid and take the train. Just guessing here but I think RTA would have to at minimum quintuple their total number of buses in the fleet to even make a dent towards providing everyone bus service. This was my first year on the train for St. Patty’s and while it was busy, there were plenty of seats/nobody left waiting and a NUMBER of RTA staff and transit police helping to keep the pace orderly and safe, even making sure people (drunk people) stepped back from the platform to a safe distance when the train approached and making everyone wait while a lady with a baby stroller got on first. I was very impressed (and let RTA know about it).
General response to everyone else re: RTA. I’ve been using RTA and talking about it to others who don’t for many years and I would say it comes down to two factors:
1. Class, which was mentioned earlier. Someone actually said to me once that they felt sorry for the poor (meaning opposite of rich) people who have to stand outside in the elements and wait for a ride every day and said they assumed it was only poor people or penny pinchers because why else would you subject yourself to that? There are quite a few people willing to pay several hundred dollars a year so they don’t have to wait outside or walk from a bus stop in the freezing rain or snow or ice.
2. Safety. I can’t speak to the E side routes as I’ve only taken them occasionally, but I have taken nearly every bus line and train line to all parts of the west side, having lived in a number of western/southwestern burbs in my nearly 20 years here and the VAST majority of riders are women. It’s true there is safety in numbers, and we just don’t have enough people in Cleveland to provide that “safety in numbers” feeling I get when I’ve ridden public trans in NY, London or chicago. Whether it’s truly the size of our city or just the # of people using the service, it’s not enough people to feel safe.
You also have to be a little tougher than an average person to deal with it IMO - you DO end up spending more time in the elements than people who drive, and I continually have been made fun of for all my “bundling up like an eskimo in Alaska” because I want to stay warm and dry, whether it’s just crossing tower city in the freezing rain or when I used to walk home from my bus stop, which was a mile on unshoveled/unsalted walks. And a lot of times it’s a lot more annoying than driving your car and listening to the music of your choice when instead you have to hear about your seat-mate’s boil removal while they blab on the phone or sit next to someone who is hacking like they have the plague and trying not to breathe.
Also the train has a lot more “characters” on it than the bus did (I switched to the train about 6 months ago). Not 2 weeks ago an old man was staring at me and rubbing his crotch. There are regularly drunks or crazy people who get on and ask everyone for money or who are singing loudly to themselves, carrying on a conversation with their imaginary friend, or swaying or smelly, which you don’t have to deal with if you drive your car. Some people just aren’t comfortable dealing with all that, and most of those people are women. I worked as a security guard for 5 years and I know how to take care of myself but I had a lot of unsettling or scary nights waiting for the bus when I used to take the bus, because once rush hour is over you have to wait an HOUR and if you miss the bus by 1 minute, it’s 2 hours you’re waiting, in the cold and people harassing you and asking you for your phone number. I can tell you in my hundreds of rides in Chicago and NY nobody has ever been staring at me and whacking off (that I noticed at least) or asked me for my number.
I have gone so far as to offer to drive to my co-worker’s house in the morning, ride with them to the train station and ride the train in with them and home again so they will know just where to go, what it’s like and how to do it and they STILL refuse. There are just people who don’t like it and it’s not “the norm” like it is in, say, NYC.
I will be the first to agree that Cleveland has made some bonehead decisions at times (ie…building a non-domed stadium that can only be used 8 times a year) but Cleveland has to focus on creating jobs and revitalizing our economy.
As a realtor on the east side, there is not many days go by that I don’t thank God for Progressive b/c probably 20% of our business is from people who work for Progessive…many of the others from government or health care.
A convention center will spur hotel development (excitement for all of our tradespeople to see an actual real live crane in our city). Hotels and Conventions will add restaurant and service industry jobs. I think this makes much more sense than watching our city continue to dwindle as people move to where jobs exist.
Which reminds me of the Sam Kinison schtick where he is commenting on the people who were starving in Somalia yelling, “YOU CAN’T GROW FOOD IN THE DESERT. IF YOU DON’T WANT TO GO HUNGRY, MOVE TO WHERE THE FOOD IS!
For those of you against the new convention center and medical mart…are you also complaining about how weak your business is, that your house has gone down in value, etc…. If you have been to Chicago, New Orleans or Atlanta…you can see how these convention cities drive their cities success.
I find it interesting that - whatever the investment initiative - we tend to avoid how such ventures will impact the lives of everyday people. I know the infusion of money will spill into the economic cycle and (supposedly) reach into the lives of people - but I’d really like to see that impact articulated in the first phase of discussion.
Oh yea - JOBS. Supposedly. But for whom?> Oh yea - the BRAIN DRAIN group: those who have had the support systems and opportunities to move to higher education.
HOORAY for them.
I’ll tell ya, they aren’t the ones applying for food stamps.
How can we broaden EVERY growth intitiative AND proposal to make the immediate connect to the portion of our society that is rarely represented in the conversation? These “invisibles” represent at least 1/4 of our metro population and an ever greater portion of the future generation.
Why can’t we talk about these “invisibles” in every growth proposal? In fact, every growth initiative in front of the Commissioners should mandate a response to the following questsion:
How will poor children, poor families and poor neighborhoods directly benefit from this project?
For those who don’t know who this group is, they include:
-Vital older men and women and retired vital men and women (the 55 plus) whose professional skill can’t seem to compete with emerging young professionals
-young adults leaving the foster care system
-those living below poverty
-those receiving food stamps or assistance (dramatic -increases there over the past few years)
single women in transition (from divorse, abuse, drug addiction)
-adjudicated men and women (those getting out of jail)
-children and families part of the protective services system
When Cleveland starts BEING INTENTIONAL about linking every growth initiative to those who REALLY NEED IT - to the fabric of society we tend not to want to see - I will stop planning my move away.
IMPOSSIBLE TO MANDATE SUCH A REQUEST IN EVERY PROPOSAL???
It only takes a decision re-align the priorities.
Brain Drain? Jesus, let’s first try to keep the brains alive.
Ed: On the county and city being tapped out and this maybe the last project the county and city can afford to tax to obtain: I thought Playhouse Square or Gateway or the Browns Stadium or the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, each at the time of desire, were what was needed as the last base for downtown progress. The missing link.
Now I think you’re saying the medical mart and convention center will tap us out economically so there will be no more on the wish list.
And the two locations have been narrowed down to the current convention center location and the mall and Tower City/Dillards/May Co. complex. Let’s see Tower City has convenient public access to hotels, transportation, the airport, restaurants, sports facilities…and so, no doubt, the commissioners will pick the convention center site. Any one taking bets?
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+0 | March 13, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
Monday we met with a group of international visitors who find Americans humorous because we will hop a bus, call a cab or get into our own vehicle for a six block walk. Could we call it Fear of Walking?
Three of the women were leaving the hotel as we were walking one block to our car. They were on their way to Reserve Square at E. 12. They started out on the sidewalk only to detour into the street why? The sidewalk was too slippery and blocked because of mounds of snow.
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+2 | March 13, 2008 @ 2:24 pm
Can you say cost over runs? At least everyone involved still has the time to see the light…and for tax payers to get “their” money back. If you think the county and city can properly manage this “public-private” partnership, I’ve got some swamp land you might want to buy.
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+1 | March 13, 2008 @ 2:39 pm
I wonder if MMPI’s $20MM commitment will come in the form of no interest loans from the city or county.
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+2 | March 14, 2008 @ 11:34 am
Gloria, I noticed the same thing when I moved here 17 years ago. Ron Tober, the head of the RTA at the time, lamented that Clevelander’s unwillingness to walk two blocks was one of the reasons they never warmed to public transit. Does anyone have an idea of the source of Clevelander’s reluctance to walk? I haven’t noticed it in other Midwest cities.
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+1 | March 14, 2008 @ 12:28 pm
Safety?
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+0 | March 14, 2008 @ 3:13 pm
Fear of walking… That’s just one of many irrational fears in Cleveland…
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+0 | March 15, 2008 @ 4:10 am
I noticed one of the other area bloggers posting about how she could ride public transit in other cities, but not here at home. What is it that causes Clevelanders to have those irrational fears? Not enough sunlight?
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+0 | March 15, 2008 @ 9:18 am
My guess, Doug’s right. Fear has a lot to do with it, based on a conversation I had in Milwaukee last week.
On our way to the airport, a senior Labor Department official told me how in her last visit to Cleveland a couple of years ago, someone recommended that she take the RTA into downtown from the airport.
She told me that it was late at night, and no one was around. She felt very unsafe on the platform.
This story comes from a woman who grew up in Chicago.
Now here’s another story about Tower City. When I first moved back to Cleveland, I had a meeting at Tower City. Aside from the really bad parking situation — poor lighting, broken pavement, and no signs to the elevators — I encountered a startling sign on the vestibule to the elevators. I remember it making reference to guns.
There’s a siege mentality in some parts of Cleveland, and fear begets fear.
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+2 | March 15, 2008 @ 10:01 am
Okay RTA–put out some docents–people who like to talk. Pay them some nominal amount or reward them with recognition. There are a lot of people who want to help other people find their way. Yesterday, a bunch of girls helped me to navigate the changes to the RTA system and while I waited for the now Route 3, instead of the 3/26, three people engaged me in conversation about movies, books and living in Cleveland. On the surface, some of the people who helped me yesterday might have one thing in common–they were all African-American–which brings us back to irrational fears…
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+1 | March 15, 2008 @ 10:33 am
George - do you remember what I always ask about when I’m trying to figure out if I can attend an event around here or not?
Parking. Safe parking. Because if I think I’m going to have to be out at night by myself in an area that I don’t know…
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+0 | March 15, 2008 @ 10:34 am
Jill–Let me tell you, I would rather wait at a bus stop, then walk into a parking garage at night. Parking lots are never safe…
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+0 | March 15, 2008 @ 10:56 am
Yeah - I’m not saying I’m rational.
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+0 | March 15, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
At the bus stop, yesterday, we talked about the palpable fear in the black community. The woman I sat with described her fears. We talked about politics and Ron Brown. I have those fears, too.
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+0 | March 15, 2008 @ 12:59 pm
But back to lighting…we could use some better lighting at the Airport RTA. Seriously, very dreary and sad the last time I saw it. Mental note to myself to take the trip again and one very obvious and easy way to make the highly theoretical Medical Mart trip downtown, worthwhile and pleasant.
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+0 | March 15, 2008 @ 2:24 pm
Aside from safety my understanding is Cleveland’s RTA isn’t the easiest to figure out so who wants the hassle. My fiance’s oldest son gets a ride home from Max Hayes because we don’t want him riding the RTA or the school bus. Why put your life, or your child’s life in the hands of incompetent people?
Discussions like this sometimes confound me. For example, any competent organization first ensures the safety of it’s constituents. When Sanders became CEO of the CMSD his first priority should have been safety but was it? No, school uniforms were and we saw the results with the SuccessTech shooting. If I saw that the RTA’s first priority was safety and was successfully dealing with it visibly I might give it a ride.
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--2 | March 15, 2008 @ 2:32 pm
G, your comments clock needs to be reset.
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+0 | March 15, 2008 @ 2:37 pm
The Cleveland Convention Center Med Mart will become a good case study in an urban planning course.
The old joke about launching a software company comes to mind. What’s the first step in launching a new software product? Print the T- Shirts.
Here we’ve got a process that’s almost completely backwards and upside down.
First, you put the financing in place with a tax. Next, you figure out who the operator will be. Next, you determine the location. (I suppose the next step will be to do a market analysis and come up with a business case…but that might be skipped.)
The latest step in this process: Appoint a blue ribbon panel (of mostly white men) to decide where to locate the convention center. Forget that this panel has no experience in convention siting. (What happened to the planning commission?)
I say let’s skip this step entirely, build an upside down convention center right smack dab in the middle of Tower City, where Forest City wants it to go, and be done with it. Commissioner Hagan is right: More public debate is an unnecessary distraction…an annoyance, really.
After all, isn’t ten years enough time to be chasing entry level tourism jobs?
Let’s remember to include just one design feature: We need to engrave the names of the Commissioners and everyone else involved in this process on brass plaque for all to see.
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+2 | March 15, 2008 @ 4:05 pm
If you have complaints about RTA or suggestions about how to make the riding experience more user-friendly, I urge you to let them know.
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+1 | March 15, 2008 @ 7:50 pm
GCRTA is very receptive to feedback. Representatives regularly post on UrbanOhio.com.
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+2 | March 15, 2008 @ 7:55 pm
re #18: Yeah, Ed! That’s the spirit, eat it raw, rah, rah, rah! Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together try to love one another right now - Everybody sing!
Ed, I think you’re on to something - Tower City is the spot! Let’s stop dreaming and get this root canal underway. We’ll all feel a lot better once the anesthetic is administered and the drilling has begun. I want my invitation to the Bellhop’s Ball – the fancy one they’ll throw when they have had a year of raking in the cash from this cow.
(By the way, if you haven’t visited the existing convention center in a while, take a tour via the groupplan link in civil society at dhellison.com - Playhouse Square should restore and program these spaces.)
Has anyone seen any rats around the big hole in Public Square? This could be a deterrent for siting it there. Of course, we could be sure to avoid that by giving all the homeless people a ticket to ride. Ah, today in bleakland, I have a song in my heart apparently…
re #12: Cleveland is scary, but so are other cities. Taking the train or bus alone late at night in any city can be a risky proposition. Just being a taxpayer and never leaving your home in Cuyahoga County is a scary proposition. I agree that the parking under Tower City is an abomination; they should be admonished for that confusing and unwelcoming space.
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+0 | March 16, 2008 @ 7:32 am
In terms of giving RTA feedback, please! How about they just do their job which is what they get paid for. It’s a no brainer that safety MUST be priority #1.
Ed, I agree. At this point let’s just let Cleveland’s command and control jockeys go forward with business as usual…Cleveland business. Hagan doesn’t want debate because he knows constituents don’t want what will get him votes so ignore them. Afterall, our problems are are the fault of the local population, not out leaders.
Yes, other cities have crime but in Chicago, for example, they have a critical mass where if something bad happens I feel like I have a chance to get help.
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--3 | March 16, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
Great timing on this subject. I just flew in from Portland, and my arms are really tired.
From the Continental concourse to baggage claim, there is no sign at all of public transportation at the airport. There is no way to know that there’s a train downtown, nor how to get to it.
And to pick up on lmcshane’s comment #10, I met a really cool black guy on the train towards West 25th. (I happen to be pasty Irish.) He was from out of town and needed some help navigating RTA.
My new pal was here for treatment for an injury from when he “used to play a little football.” Turns out, this guy I didn’t recognize is used to be a wide receiver for the Redskins and has played in the Super Bowl.
It would have been neat if I were more of a football fan.
One other thing: the airport RTA platform feels a little isolated, but you can wait (warmly) inside and see the trains coming.
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+0 | March 17, 2008 @ 9:38 am
From the WKYC.com posting:
Always beware of passive voice.
This “estimate,” which was pushed by CVB and Cleveland-plus people, and repeated as truth by Tom Mulready, was thoroughly debunked right here on BFD. It’s nonsense.
Dangerous, expensive, stupid nonsense.
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+0 | March 17, 2008 @ 10:05 am
Pasty Irish folks unite!! Schumann is Irish? Black Irish?
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+0 | March 17, 2008 @ 11:28 am
What I gather from all of this is that, if we all weren’t so cute and irresistible, we’d be a lot safer?
A lot of this is fostered by an us/them/those people mentality in this area, as well. We aren’t what you would call accepting, non-judgmental, unbiased, or cosmopolitan. We’re very class-conscious, and use it like a club, and my criticism is not confined to one class–all are guilty. The side effect is the fear, the distrust, the suspicion you’re all talking about. We are pitted against each other, and conditioned to prey on each other, and to fear being preyed upon.
Too bad we don’t have to unite to fight against wild animals, or something.
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+0 | March 17, 2008 @ 4:10 pm
Well, so much for luck of the Irish–this dumb Irish broad got stuck down at the West Side Market, while four RTA buses passed, packed to capacity. I walked home most of the way before I caught the circulator at Clark. RTA–shame on you for poor performance today. I was scheduled off, but I waited in vain with other people who needed to get to work at Metro and Steelyard Commons.
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+0 | March 17, 2008 @ 4:11 pm
The Irish–definitely a “Red Irish” type–is on my mother’s side. Dad’s got people from Germany (hence the surname) and Quebec.
But it’s pasty all around!
I’m trying hard not to sound stalkerish, but you’ve seen me in real life more than a few times. I must not have made much of an impression!
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+0 | March 17, 2008 @ 4:12 pm
Yes, Tim…we’re all sinners. Now, how do we get to heaven from here?
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+0 | March 17, 2008 @ 4:15 pm
@lmcshane #27… you do not want to get me started on public transportation in Portland, Oregon, where I spent half of last week.
But I will say that I walked four short blocks to my bus stop–on a peripheral, non-downtown route–caught my ride exactly on schedule, and made an easy connection to the light rail to the airport.
No big deal, except it was 9pm on a Saturday. Would you try that in Cleveland?
Back to the Medical Mart–the thing is, Cleveland “leadership” keeps pushing big-ticket tourist attractions when the fact of the matter is that basic services suck. The buses run late or skip trips entirely. The schools are unsafe. You can’t even find the airport rapid station without psychic powers. It takes four days to plow side streets. Housing codes aren’t enforced. The county buys an office building only to strip its asbestos and sell it again. You have to pick your away among the potholes. Nobody can account for the $500MM school construction bond money.
Instead of pursuing this tourist nonsense, how about if we work on developing a healthy city? We could start with replacing two out of three county commissioners and convening a federal grand jury to look into some of the shadier practices of local government.
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+3 | March 17, 2008 @ 4:26 pm
Mark–yes, I know you..and your family (all big library customers)…and all you say in #30 is true. I am tired. You are tired. Tim is tired (and grumpy). We all live here. I am sick of the neglect and the criminal waste of the public dollar. Tim, doesn’t say it, but we all have the means to run away, but we don’t. I am at least grateful for that on this Saint’s Day…
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+1 | March 17, 2008 @ 4:44 pm
What Mark said.
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+2 | March 18, 2008 @ 6:05 am
Mark:
Look on the bright side. We may finally be ending the debate over a convention center in Cleveland, a thirty year old idea that is at least ten years late.
When this little buddy gets built (to rescue Tower City, I suspect), perhaps the City’s leadership will move on to something else.
Just think of what they have put the city through in the last decade…20+ studies (by their count), a knucklehead casino referendum that took 2+ years, and now a classic — albeit somewhat clumsy — power move (what we used to call a “cram down” when I worked on Capitol Hill) to design, site, finance and build a convention center without substantive public involvement.
It’s the last big box in Cleveland. The City and the County won’t be building any more big projects anytime soon, for the simple reason that the public funds have been pretty much exhausted. Local taxes — already the highest in the Midwest — can’t go much higher.
We are watching the sad end of an era in Cleveland, but — and here’s the good news — it is the end of an era.
We should salute our “leaders” for their efforts, and suggest to them, politely, that it is now time to retire.
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+0 | March 18, 2008 @ 6:49 am
“Hagan and Dimora retire”
Hey! That headline has a nice ring to it.
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+3 | March 18, 2008 @ 7:17 am
@Susan Miller:
Retire? Do you mean as part of a plea bargain or what?
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+1 | March 18, 2008 @ 8:58 am
#10 wrote: Okay RTA–put out some docents–people who like to talk. Pay them some nominal amount or reward them with recognition. There are a lot of people who want to help other people find their way.
You are correct. All City Year volunteers are trained to answer RTA questions and help strangers, as trolley operators/ambassadors, all RTA employees (I help 2-3 people a week) and those yellow jacketed members of Downtown Cleveland Alliance crews.
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+3 | March 18, 2008 @ 9:44 am
Interesting how a post on the Med/Con turns into a discussion on quality of life.
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+0 | March 18, 2008 @ 9:49 am
#16 asked if safety was an RTA priority, and then wrote “Why put your life, or your child’s life, in the hands of incompetent people?”
In recent years, RTA has elevated the status of the Safety Director, thus attracting more qualified applicants. The current safety director is an engineer, and she has worked hard to make everyone more aware of safety at RTA. Among other things, employees who do things “above and beyond” are recognized each month by their peers as “Champions of Safety.” An Executive Safety Committee was formed at the highest levels, and members meet monthly to discuss concerns. And, safety is part of the quarterly RTA Report Card — have you ever read it? Just go to rideRTA.com. Click on newsroom and then select “Report Card”.
The remark about hiring “incompetent people” is way out in left field. If you have definite comments about a particular day and time that a single event occurred, then report it, as someone else already directed you to. I ride RTA daily, and I often give my bosses comments and suggestions as to how to improve service.
By the way, RTA staff rides the vehicles more than 1.3 million times each year.
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+4 | March 18, 2008 @ 9:52 am
Someone sent me an email saying today is Hagan’s birthday. He’s 62. Social Security kicks in at 62 for those who are eligible.
Don’t I hear the call of Hyannisport on the wind? Max Kennedy’s house was listed in Forbes for a mere $6 million a in the fall of 06. It probably sold, but surely there are more homes for sale in the hood at the swanky kennedyhaven on the eastcoast. Be all that you can be Tim! Be retired - outside Cuyahoga County… heck get an alpaca farm or something.
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+0 | March 18, 2008 @ 9:54 am
Regarding comments about the airport signage….RTA’s Marketing Department has been working with the staff at Hopkins to increase the visibility of public transit. If you have concrete suggestions or comments, please send them to me at jmasek@gcrta.org, and I will pass them along to people who can make them happen — if they are workable.
One of my personal pet peeves: If you REALLY want to make a difference, why complain here, to people who can’t change anything? Use your time and energy to write to those who spend 40-50 hours (or more) each week to improve public transit. That’s my opinion, and I am sticking to it.
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+3 | March 18, 2008 @ 9:57 am
#27 wrote: “Well, so much for luck of the Irish–this dumb Irish broad got stuck down at the West Side Market, while four RTA buses passed, packed to capacity. I walked home most of the way before I caught the circulator at Clark. RTA–shame on you for poor performance today.”
I am sorry you could not get a ride home when you needed one, but some 300,000 people came out for the parade and the parties, and many chose RTA. We spent days preparing for this special event, learning from past years what works at what does not. Shame on RTA because our buses were packed to capacity? No, that’s a good thing — it means our service is being used and your tax dollars are being used efficiently. There was extra rail service all day long, and there was extra staff on hand to help keep the crowds moving. Extra bus service is much harder to predict and to schedule.
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+5 | March 18, 2008 @ 10:05 am
I forgot to introduce myself. I am a Public Information Officer at RTA. A former reporter for The Cleveland Press and former Press Secretary to Mayor Voinovich, I served seven years here as Media Relations Manager. Now, I am Publications Manager.
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+3 | March 18, 2008 @ 10:09 am
Thanks for commenting, Jerry. You make a good argument for letter-writing to RTA folks such as yourself, but I think even you could admit that it’s not so nice to suggest that leaving comments here is complaining to people who can’t change anything.
You came here and engaged with people who hadn’t written or called RTA? Isn’t that something? Shouldn’t people use whatever outlets they find available or feel comfortable using? As a former ombuds at a mental health agency, I know sometimes all people want to do is to complain - they don’t need change or have an expectation (reasonable or unreasonable) that something will be or even should be changed.
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--2 | March 18, 2008 @ 10:12 am
G (#37):
Taxing capacity is limited. The real cost of the Con Center decision is the opportunity cost. In my view, we need financial flexibility and focused investments in our educational institutions.
Investing in a convention center in an exceptionally weak market will tie the County’s hands for a generation to come.
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+2 | March 18, 2008 @ 10:16 am
Jill, I hear you, and would never want to infringe on anyone’s right to free speech. However, I am personally against spreading stress and negativity. Sitting on the Rapid, I hear people complaining all the time, about a wide variety of subjects, to persons who have no control over the issues being discussed. That’s one habit I hope I never fall into.
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+3 | March 18, 2008 @ 10:33 am
Smiling - yes, I bet you do hear that! I think folks here at BFD are far closer to action-taking than many on the RTA services, but still - you know, sometimes we need to sort it out, sound it out, before we’re ready to write the letter or pick up the phone. I give you big kudos for “being where the client is” so to speak. With more places than just the letter to the editor page to find public concerns voiced, it’s not so easy, I’m sure - but your doing it puts you and RTA above a lot of others.
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--2 | March 18, 2008 @ 10:38 am
Just to add my two cents to the discussion so that people don’t think RTA is some monstrous public transit system to be avoided at all costs…
I have ridden RTA literally thousands of times and honestly, I can count on one hand the number of times I felt even remotely unsafe. I have been late to work because of RTA exactly twice (the second time was probably my own fault - I tried to take the train the day after the big ice storm this month, even though I knew it wasn’t running right. If I’d taken the bus as was my first inclination, I wouldn’t have been late.) Taking the F-train into Manhattan from Queens, I was late to work all the time.
I admit, RTA is not the most intuitive system for outsiders, but neither is the New York City subway system compared to, say, the London Underground. But I think RTA works well for people who live here and know how to use it. I moved back to Cleveland with a little trepidation - was I really going to be able to go car-free? Frankly, I’ve got more public transit service in Ohio City than I did in my neighborhood in Queens. If RTA didn’t have such extensive, frequent service to where I want to go, I never would have even considered moving back here. So I’m grateful.
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+4 | March 18, 2008 @ 11:42 am
Jerry–if you look at your records, you will know that I have submitted comments and have used RTA as primary transportation since returning to Cleveland in 1992. You also know that there is a two-tier system of service. Comfortable, plush suburban vs. cattle car urban. I am not some fly-by-night customer. RTA’s drivers are heroic in their ability to serve the public. The administrators need to work on their game and provide some dignity to the people who use the heavily trafficked urban lines. While, I am glad that RTA was the mode of transportation, yesterday–your administrators have to acknowledge that service is not an option, it’s an obligation.
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+0 | March 18, 2008 @ 12:54 pm
Jerry, when I submitted a complaint and request for refund last year for a bus that never showed up (thus wasting half of my day pass), there was no response at all from RTA.
I’m sure you’d prefer for public service complaints to be handled privately, but it hasn’t worked out so well for me.
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+0 | March 18, 2008 @ 1:23 pm
Thanks for riding RTA, and thanks for submitting comments. When you mention “plush suburban,” I assume you are referring to MCI over-the-road coaches that serve RTA Park-N-Ride lots. They have just one door in the front, and thus cannot be used on many fixed routes. As you know, most buses have two doors — enter in the front and exit from the back. The Park-n-Ride service costs us more to operate — the buses are more expensive and the lots cost more to build than your usual bus shelter. So, we also charge more to ride them. I am sorry you view it as “comfortable plush suburban vs. cattle car urban.” I agree that “service is not an option, it’s an obligation.” Several times in recent years, I have arrived at the Puritas Station on my way home, and ran into a customer who had “unusual circumstances” and could not wait for the next bus. Each time, I took the customer home in my car. I do not do that lightly, or often. Other times, if a customer there was scared, or new to transit, I would wait (at a distance) until the next bus arrived. The bottom line: RTA administrators care as much as the operators do. Sometimes, circumstances and resources work against us, but we always strive to do what we can with the cards we are dealt. Thanks for riding.
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+4 | March 18, 2008 @ 1:32 pm
And not to beat a dead horse, but this is a legitimate forum. It’s the new way of making oneself heard and if it bothers the status quo, then, it should. That’s the idea. I have tried all of the “legitimate” routes of communication, including applying to serve on the citizen advisory board (never heard back). Overall, I am glad that RTA makes Cleveland a better city, than say, Detroit (!) or San Juan PR, where they run the same cattle car buses (the low riders) you see here in Cleveland, but we can and should do better. Thank you for listening and for paying attention to this forum.
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+2 | March 18, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
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Ouch! Our standard is that all complaints are responded to. I am sorry that in your case, our standard was not met.
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+5 | March 18, 2008 @ 1:35 pm
“I have tried all “legitimate” routes of communication, including applying to serve on the citizen advisory board (never heard back).”
Vacancies occur on the Citizens Advisory Board several times a year, and past applications are still in the stack. There are now four openings, so the selection committee will meet soon. You may yet get a call. Yes, a letter or phone call would have been nice, but I know that I have been interviewed at companies far larger than RTA, and they never called me to tell me someone else had been picked…I had to read it in the newspaper.
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+5 | March 18, 2008 @ 1:42 pm
Coming back to the ostensible topic… poor experiences with RTA and basic city services erode any faith we may have otherwise had in the Medical Mart deal.
Of course, having representatives of CVB making up projections and passing them off as “research” didn’t help.
The point is, if the “leadership” wants public support–and maybe they don’t?–they can start by acting competent and trustworthy. Such as, for example, doing basic and inexpensive (competent) things like putting the correct stop numbers on shelters. Or (trustworthy) not spending millions of taxpayer dollars on a business run by close friends of a county commissioner.
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--2 | March 18, 2008 @ 2:06 pm
Jerry,
Any chance of getting a park & ride to Medina? Maybe a circulator from Medina to the nearest rapid station?
I’d take it every day.
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+0 | March 18, 2008 @ 2:12 pm
There’s always places like Egypt where women used to be allowed only in 2nd class but often rode in 3rd class with animals.
I played up my obvious tourist status and sat encased in a sleeping bag in 1st class - to keep my entire body covered up.
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+0 | March 18, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
#54 has a great point.
Can Mr. Masek provide some of the rationale behind the Euclid Corridor project? Specifically, did it take into account an increased in ridership based on a convention center (if any)?
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+0 | March 18, 2008 @ 2:50 pm
“Any chance of getting a park & ride to Medina? Maybe a circulator from Medina to the nearest rapid station?
I’d take it every day.”
Thanks for the comment. About 70 percent of RTA’s general fund (for operations)comes from a one percent countywide sales tax. That means, when you buy something in Cuyahoga County, and it costs $1.00, one penny of the sales tax goes to support RTA. Less than 20 percent of the budget comes from the farebox. To build a Park-n-Ride out of the county would mean taking funding away from the county, so no, RTA is not going to do that. The #451 does go as far south as Laurel Square in Brunswick. Check that schedule out on rideRTA.com and see if it works for you.
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+4 | March 18, 2008 @ 2:53 pm
“Can Mr. Masek provide some of the rationale behind the Euclid Corridor project? Specifically, did it take into account an increased in ridership based on a convention center (if any)?”
LONG ANSWER: I am not trying to be funny, but to answer your question completely would take far more time than either you or I have. A complete history of the Project can be found on euclidtransit.org.
SHORT ANSWER: The project was years in the making. The Convention Center and Medical Mart issues are really recent developments. A large increase in ridership is projected, with or without a convention center.
I hope this helps.
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+4 | March 18, 2008 @ 3:01 pm
So you are telling me that you can not provide service to the fastest growing county in ohio because you are 80% funded by cuyahoga county?
That is amazing. No wonder why mass tranist systmes are publicly funded. They woudl fail without tax dollars.
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--9 | March 18, 2008 @ 7:46 pm
The Medical Mart could become more than its current scope of vision. If facilitated wisely, it could be a comprehensive model that helps to alleviate poverty, model sustainability and transform lives holistically. Can we stretch ourselves to leverage the economic, environmental and human capital that is buried beneath the millions?
As a poverty initiative: commit that 50% of all project workers (from planning, to construction to providers) are people currently living below poverty and are trained and employed to be a part of the project. Further commit by turning every aspect of development into a learning lab for Cleveland high school and community college students. Better yet, assign every student to a 2 year mentoring experience.
As a sustainability initiative: commit to everything GREEN and then further commit to weaving entreprenuership throughout every phase of development. Further compliment this by making the Medical Mart its own GREEN innovation incubator. Pepper it up just a little more by promising that everyone who works there must take a class on sustainability principles to ensure that each and every office worker raises his /her consciousness on a daily level. Spice it up even more through the integration of public art every step of the way.
As a human transformation initiative: create a center for holistic life support for everyone who works on the project and every who will subsequently walk into the building. Ensure that this center of support addresses the mind, body and spirit needs of people. And GUESS HOW THIS IS DONE? Through the interconnection of multi-sector stakeholders who come together to share resource and create common support structures for people.
In this vision - the Medical Mart becomes more about money. It becomes a chance to transform on every level and - more importantly - creates a model of multi-system, multi-level revitalization and regionalism.
We have to learn that “thinking big” is also “thinking deep” - and integrates all of the system stakeholders in every step of the process. To think about financing the project, without simulanteously thinking about the patients served, is an outdated / silo model of economic development AND human development.
Can we think this deep? Can we work at this level of wholeness? Economically, emotionally, physically, creatively, spiritually, environmentally, mentally?
More importantly, can this opportunity for model transformation outweigh self interest?
Physicists now realize our oneness and connectedness at an atom level. Let us challenge ourselves, and our growth initiatives, to replicate the same.
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+0 | March 19, 2008 @ 7:13 am
Thanks Jerry, if I may be so informal. This is probably enough of the “mass” in mass transit for you. If we do get the medical mart, I hope that it is situated at Tower City to take advantage of RTA’s redline connection to the airport and other resources. Other developments that could make downtown more attractive would be the completion of the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad to downtown and more people living in the city. I hope it happens in my life time.
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+3 | March 19, 2008 @ 7:26 am
Re: #61
I would be happy if the Med Mart/Conv Center would at least hire minority contractors instead of just sending token business to minority front companies and kickbacks to politicians.
And with all due respect, please make the Med Mart/Conv Center solely about money. If this whole adventure can buck the trend of excess conv center supply/decreased convention demand (through GREEN initiatives etc.), then our extra taxes will be justified.
Finally, just to keep with this whole pessimistic theme, perhaps the Conv Center can provide new opportunities for the thousands of Key and NatCity employees who are nervously looking over their shoulder.
Now, if I can just catch the 79X bus out to the suburbs!
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+0 | March 19, 2008 @ 8:37 am
“If we do get the medical mart, I hope that it is situated at Tower City to take advantage of RTA’s Red Line connection to the airport and other resources.”
FYI, RTA’s official position is that we are neutral. Whatever is good for Cleveland is good for RTA, and we will provide service to whichever site is chosen.
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+3 | March 19, 2008 @ 8:38 am
“So you are telling me that you can not provide service to the fastest growing county in Ohio (Medina) because you are 80% funded by Cuyahoga County (taxpayers)? That is amazing. No wonder why mass tranist systmes are publicly funded. They would fail without tax dollars.”
Every public transit system in the nation has some sort of tax subsidy. So does every other public service, such as police and fire departments. They all exist for the public good.
FYI, transit systems like Laketran in Lake County and Metro in Summit County provide special service to downtown Cleveland for their taxpayers. I am not being flippant (sp?), but if this is an issue in Medina County, then talk to your County Commissioners. There is at least one public transit system in your county.
Your neighbors have already found other solutions.
1. I mentioned the transfer at Laurel Square.
2. Many Medinans drive north on I-71, and then park at the Puritas Station at W. 150 to take the Rapid downtown, thus avoiding $10 or more a day to park.
3. Drive north on I-71 to the Turnpike exit, and use the Park-N-Ride there.
Public transit works best in the central city. The farther out you move, the more benefits you have (like fresh air and lots of land), but the less you have of some urban services, like public transit. It’s a choice you make when you decide where to live.
Then of course, there is “regionalism” and the issue of what it really means. In some states, transit systems in the central county — Cuyahoga — also serves every county that touches it. There are some who believe that would work here, but it would take some work to get there.
Stay tuned, but do not hold your breath — change does not happen quickly.
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+6 | March 19, 2008 @ 8:52 am
Why neutral? RTA has spent millions of public dollars on the Euclid Corridor project and at Tower City–who exactly determines “what’s good for Cleveland?” I think you have let the cat out of the bag.
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+1 | March 19, 2008 @ 10:58 am
Even if the CC ends up on the existing site, it will still rate exceptionally high as far as proximity to public transportation. It’s basically a walk across Public Square from Tower City. I believe that was Gloria’s point back at #2. But for those who want direct rail service between the airport and CC, all they have to do is jump on the Waterfront Line and enter/exit from the north.
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+1 | March 19, 2008 @ 12:00 pm
@lmcshane - I learned through many experiences like yours that St. patty’s is the worst day to ride the bus. Drive to a park and ride for the rapid and take the train. Just guessing here but I think RTA would have to at minimum quintuple their total number of buses in the fleet to even make a dent towards providing everyone bus service. This was my first year on the train for St. Patty’s and while it was busy, there were plenty of seats/nobody left waiting and a NUMBER of RTA staff and transit police helping to keep the pace orderly and safe, even making sure people (drunk people) stepped back from the platform to a safe distance when the train approached and making everyone wait while a lady with a baby stroller got on first. I was very impressed (and let RTA know about it).
General response to everyone else re: RTA. I’ve been using RTA and talking about it to others who don’t for many years and I would say it comes down to two factors:
1. Class, which was mentioned earlier. Someone actually said to me once that they felt sorry for the poor (meaning opposite of rich) people who have to stand outside in the elements and wait for a ride every day and said they assumed it was only poor people or penny pinchers because why else would you subject yourself to that? There are quite a few people willing to pay several hundred dollars a year so they don’t have to wait outside or walk from a bus stop in the freezing rain or snow or ice.
2. Safety. I can’t speak to the E side routes as I’ve only taken them occasionally, but I have taken nearly every bus line and train line to all parts of the west side, having lived in a number of western/southwestern burbs in my nearly 20 years here and the VAST majority of riders are women. It’s true there is safety in numbers, and we just don’t have enough people in Cleveland to provide that “safety in numbers” feeling I get when I’ve ridden public trans in NY, London or chicago. Whether it’s truly the size of our city or just the # of people using the service, it’s not enough people to feel safe.
You also have to be a little tougher than an average person to deal with it IMO - you DO end up spending more time in the elements than people who drive, and I continually have been made fun of for all my “bundling up like an eskimo in Alaska” because I want to stay warm and dry, whether it’s just crossing tower city in the freezing rain or when I used to walk home from my bus stop, which was a mile on unshoveled/unsalted walks. And a lot of times it’s a lot more annoying than driving your car and listening to the music of your choice when instead you have to hear about your seat-mate’s boil removal while they blab on the phone or sit next to someone who is hacking like they have the plague and trying not to breathe.
Also the train has a lot more “characters” on it than the bus did (I switched to the train about 6 months ago). Not 2 weeks ago an old man was staring at me and rubbing his crotch. There are regularly drunks or crazy people who get on and ask everyone for money or who are singing loudly to themselves, carrying on a conversation with their imaginary friend, or swaying or smelly, which you don’t have to deal with if you drive your car. Some people just aren’t comfortable dealing with all that, and most of those people are women. I worked as a security guard for 5 years and I know how to take care of myself but I had a lot of unsettling or scary nights waiting for the bus when I used to take the bus, because once rush hour is over you have to wait an HOUR and if you miss the bus by 1 minute, it’s 2 hours you’re waiting, in the cold and people harassing you and asking you for your phone number. I can tell you in my hundreds of rides in Chicago and NY nobody has ever been staring at me and whacking off (that I noticed at least) or asked me for my number.
I have gone so far as to offer to drive to my co-worker’s house in the morning, ride with them to the train station and ride the train in with them and home again so they will know just where to go, what it’s like and how to do it and they STILL refuse. There are just people who don’t like it and it’s not “the norm” like it is in, say, NYC.
/off soapbox
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+3 | March 19, 2008 @ 12:55 pm
Jump on the waterfront line? Have you ever waited for the waterfront line. I know–thanks for reminding us that it is there
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+1 | March 19, 2008 @ 5:16 pm
I will be the first to agree that Cleveland has made some bonehead decisions at times (ie…building a non-domed stadium that can only be used 8 times a year) but Cleveland has to focus on creating jobs and revitalizing our economy.
As a realtor on the east side, there is not many days go by that I don’t thank God for Progressive b/c probably 20% of our business is from people who work for Progessive…many of the others from government or health care.
A convention center will spur hotel development (excitement for all of our tradespeople to see an actual real live crane in our city). Hotels and Conventions will add restaurant and service industry jobs. I think this makes much more sense than watching our city continue to dwindle as people move to where jobs exist.
Which reminds me of the Sam Kinison schtick where he is commenting on the people who were starving in Somalia yelling, “YOU CAN’T GROW FOOD IN THE DESERT. IF YOU DON’T WANT TO GO HUNGRY, MOVE TO WHERE THE FOOD IS!
For those of you against the new convention center and medical mart…are you also complaining about how weak your business is, that your house has gone down in value, etc…. If you have been to Chicago, New Orleans or Atlanta…you can see how these convention cities drive their cities success.
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--3 | March 19, 2008 @ 8:01 pm
Darren:
The convention center market is slow growth and overbuilt. Current industry utilization is 16.5%.
The probability that this investment will generate significant growth is rather low.
Can a Med Mart support a convention center?
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+3 | March 20, 2008 @ 6:37 am
I find it interesting that - whatever the investment initiative - we tend to avoid how such ventures will impact the lives of everyday people. I know the infusion of money will spill into the economic cycle and (supposedly) reach into the lives of people - but I’d really like to see that impact articulated in the first phase of discussion.
Oh yea - JOBS. Supposedly. But for whom?> Oh yea - the BRAIN DRAIN group: those who have had the support systems and opportunities to move to higher education.
HOORAY for them.
I’ll tell ya, they aren’t the ones applying for food stamps.
How can we broaden EVERY growth intitiative AND proposal to make the immediate connect to the portion of our society that is rarely represented in the conversation? These “invisibles” represent at least 1/4 of our metro population and an ever greater portion of the future generation.
Why can’t we talk about these “invisibles” in every growth proposal? In fact, every growth initiative in front of the Commissioners should mandate a response to the following questsion:
How will poor children, poor families and poor neighborhoods directly benefit from this project?
For those who don’t know who this group is, they include:
-Vital older men and women and retired vital men and women (the 55 plus) whose professional skill can’t seem to compete with emerging young professionals
-young adults leaving the foster care system
-those living below poverty
-those receiving food stamps or assistance (dramatic -increases there over the past few years)
single women in transition (from divorse, abuse, drug addiction)
-adjudicated men and women (those getting out of jail)
-children and families part of the protective services system
When Cleveland starts BEING INTENTIONAL about linking every growth initiative to those who REALLY NEED IT - to the fabric of society we tend not to want to see - I will stop planning my move away.
IMPOSSIBLE TO MANDATE SUCH A REQUEST IN EVERY PROPOSAL???
It only takes a decision re-align the priorities.
Brain Drain? Jesus, let’s first try to keep the brains alive.
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+1 | March 20, 2008 @ 8:55 am
Ed: On the county and city being tapped out and this maybe the last project the county and city can afford to tax to obtain: I thought Playhouse Square or Gateway or the Browns Stadium or the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, each at the time of desire, were what was needed as the last base for downtown progress. The missing link.
Now I think you’re saying the medical mart and convention center will tap us out economically so there will be no more on the wish list.
Sorry, the port authority has a